zhaos
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Post by zhaos on Feb 8, 2011 19:37:42 GMT -5
I have been listening to the podcast and thought I would get on the boards and ask for some opinions.
I am entering a tournament that is 2500pts. I need to be as balanced as possible. As there is every flavor of army in the tournament and I could face anything.
I have been trying all kinds of army lists and keep changing my mind. I went from magic heavy and am now going Arty heavy.
My last army list went like this.
BO Warboss: 439pts Sword of swift slaying (Strikes first) Warboss Umm's Best Big Boss's 'Ay (+1 to AR, 5+ ward save) Warboss Imbad's Iron Gnashas (KB) Wyvern
BO Warboss(General): 183pts Gold sigil sword (10 Ini) Gambler's Armor (Hvy 6+ Ward)
Night goblin Shaman: Lvl 2 115pts Tricksters shard Ironcurse Icon
Night Goblin Big Boss (BSB): 107pts Spider banner
Goblin Big boss(bob): 47pts Shrieking Blade: Causes Fear
Goblin Big Boss(neal):87 pts Spiteful Shield Terrifying Mask of Eee!
42 X Boyz Mob: 527pts Standard, Musician, Extra hand weapons Big'Uns Morks spirit Totem (Unit has general)
35 X Night Goblin Mob Musician, Std Bearer, Nets, Short bow (had shaman in it)
36 X Night goblin Mob Musician, Std bearer, boss, Nets, Spear, shield 3 X Fanatics (has BSB and Neal (goblin boss))
33 X Night goblin Mob Musician, std Bearer, Nets, spear, shield. (Contains Bob (Goblin Boss))
Shooty Things
2 X Doom Diver 2 X Spear Chukka (both with bullies) 2 X Rock Lobber
I have made some changes since playing this army dropping the magical banner on the BSB and giving him the shrieking blade and dropping Bob. Also dumping the tricksters shard and spiteful shield from my heros. Replacing the Ork Boyz with Black Orks I think I can squeeze in about 40 or so black orks. I also dropped the sword of swift slaying from the BOWB and gave the general a better armor save and ward save. But I can remember exactly what I gave them.
One of the real problems I have been having is protecting my Arty and getting to my opponents army. Which is why I added the WarBoss on they wyvern.
Thanks in advance, and dont hold back I can handle criticism
Z
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Post by walkstheweb on Feb 8, 2011 19:57:53 GMT -5
I'm not the best player out there but my one question is hunters. Something fast to work on what is going to flank you or to hunt down war machines instead of just trading shots with them with your war machines? Turning a unit of NG into cav or a charriot could help out. Maybe its the DE in me but I just feel having that many troops leads to being outflanked. But like I said, I am a horrible tactician. Take it with a grain of salt.
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zhaos
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Post by zhaos on Feb 8, 2011 20:28:13 GMT -5
I used to have 12 gobo wolf riders in the army because they were quick and could run to the other side and attack stuff, but they didnt seem to be very good at that (For the point cost) and usually just got killed, so then I switched to 10 gobo spider riders, but once again for the point cost I just didnt think they were worth it. The DE shades just slaughter anything I leave behind to defend, or I leave to much back defending and dont do well in the middle fight. I thought about ditching most of the artillery, but I was looking at how many more models I would have to paint, and kinda balked at the idea.
Do you think leaving chariots to defend my artillery would work?
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Post by heychadwick on Feb 8, 2011 21:18:16 GMT -5
Hiya. I'm a long time OnG player and I even did pretty decent in 7th Ed (as long as the dice were good). I've been working 8th Ed and I've got some ideas as to how to run things.
The first question is if the Power Scroll is banned in the tournament? If not, then you should go with a lvl 4 Orc Shaman and use the Power Scroll. You save it for that one round when you can charge his battle line and throw all your dice at the Waaagh! spell. It's a game breaker. The strategy is plain, but it wins games. Everything (including fanatics) moves 2d6 near the closest enemy. You get ASF and to re-roll misses that turn. You destroy things. It's crazy good.
The Waaagh! spell is pretty good, even if you don't use the Power Scroll. Most people take a lvl 4 Orc shaman as you will have a 90% chance of getting the spell. Recently, some people have been using two lvl 2's instead. You don't get the +4 to cast, but you also don't lose all your magic when your shaman blows up. So, it's a good idea. Most of the other Orc magic spells are pretty darn good, including Fists of Gork.
I've also used a lvl 2 goblin shaman and gone with the Staff of Sneaky Stealin'. It's great to take away from your opponents magic phase. Also, some of the Gobbo spells can be really good. Mork Wants Ya! is perfect for war machines (no save). Foot of Gork is good for taking things out. Gork'll Fix it rocks, too.
I think the Spider Banner is a waste on a BSB. There are two good things for the BSB in an OnG list (in my opinion). That is the Spirit Totem (adds dispel dice for rank bonus) or just make him survivable. That's the Armor of Destiny or Silvered Armor (1+ AS). The thing is that you need the BSB for Ld tests. So, get that guy protected! The other option is the Spirit Totem. If you go with that AND the Staff of Sneaky Stealin, you can SHUT DOWN enemy magic. Often, you will have more dispel dice then they have power dice. Some people live to cast spells. I've had games where the dice went south and I just got crushed...but I shut down their magic phase and they were pissed!
The problem with Black Orcs and/or Big Uns is that when you are a horde army, your opponent looks for the most expensive things to shoot and/or blast with magic. That's usually Black Orcs and Big 'Uns. They....just don't last. Or, you have to put so many points into the unit to make it last and if you lose that unit to a flank or a break test, you lose a lot of points. Personally, I would skip the Black Orcs or Big 'Uns until next edition. Maybe a small unit of 10-15 Black Orcs with the Banner of Eternal Flame to fight those Hydras and Abominations.
I think your war machines are perfect. Keep them as they are. We have far few things to take out Hydras and Abominations. Our war machines do it. They are also great for taking out tough enemy units. If you want to keep them alive....try a Snoting Pump Wagon or two. Just zip them back and forth of your war machines and wait for the enemy to come near you. You can do that, or a goblin chariot. They are cheap, charge far, and do damage. There is even the idea of a unit of 20 goblin archers. No fanatic, but they are a fully ranked unit for 66 pts. A small unit of Arrer Boyz is also not bad. They can fight off most fast cav and can shoot, too.
I have to wonder about the Wyvern Lord. I think he's too many points. I would dump him to get the lvl 4. If you don't want to dump him, you should give him the Charmed Shield. It's the thing that gives 2+ ward save vs. first hit? That will save him for that cannon shot that would normally take him and the hydra out.
Units of 6 trolls are usually very good and something to add some combat strength. Keep them near the general and the BSB and you should be golden. I've also thought about adding a black orc on boar with the Crown of Command to throw into the trolls to help them stay in combat. As long as you don't brick your regen rolls, this unit should last.
For me, the general strategy that has worked with Orcs and Goblins in 8th Ed is the typical Hammer and Anvil strategy. You have big blocks of Goblins (30-40 strong) mixed with other units that can hit them in the flank. These don't even have to be that tough. A unit of 20 goblins will disrupt the enemy flanks. As long as your anvil unit has more ranks, they won't be steadfast. You will most likely break them unless it's a crazy good unit that just dishes out 10+ kills a turn. Chariots are also good hammer units. Orcs with 2 choppas can be good, too, especially if you are getting the Waaagh! spell off. Small Black Orc units are also good. Squig Herds, too. Even just regular orcs with a fighting character.
OK...I have to go, but that's my advice. I would stay away from just 4 big and expensive units and break things up a bit. We are a horde army and you should take advantage of it. Even Skaven Slaves will only have a LD 5 if you flank them with a unit of 20 gobbos.
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zhaos
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Post by zhaos on Feb 10, 2011 20:44:35 GMT -5
Yeah, I tried the Waaaghhh route, but if you have a lvl 4 orc shaman you still dont get the waaghh spell 33% of the time, so you basically need the lvl 2 orc shaman to go along with him to ensure you go that route, and the waagh spell makes your Arty charge as well, and I didnt like the idea of my artillery not having a crew any longer. especially since I can engage the enemy by turn 3 usually with that spell.
My problem with small blocks of gobos was the darned Dark Elves keep making them break, and the more I have the more likely they will be out of the generals 12 inch range. I figure dwarves, elves, and empire could all do the same thing to me with their shooties. If I split the orcs up into multiple units I have the same problems. Trolls are just to expensive right now, the new book should fix that. I didnt think that bosses could join trolls.
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Tom McClure
The Brotherhood
Da' Guest
So many grudges...
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Post by Tom McClure on Feb 10, 2011 21:45:06 GMT -5
A unit of 4 trolls is so good, and they are often my MVP. Deploy them right next to the general's unit and run them straight at whatever is the nastiest. Use them to holdup or worst case redirect for a flank charge from orcs if they route.
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Post by heychadwick on Feb 11, 2011 7:19:43 GMT -5
If you play defensive, I like to have a unit with fanatics right behind the trolls. Someone will eventually charge the trolls. You take the hits, but will probably regen half of them. The enemy, though, will take double hits from landing them on top.
There is nothing stopping characters from joining troll units. People usually call them "baby sitters". You usually have to put them on a boar to have them keep up with the trolls. They only get a 4+ "Look Out, Sir" roll, but that's OK.
Also, what do you mean a 33% chance of not getting Waaagh!? I think it's something like 93%. Don't forget that you roll one die at a time. If you get a number you already have, you get to pick the spell. This changes the percentages. Don't just throw all the dice at once. You are limiting yourself.
As for the units of 20 goblins, you keep them back as a secondary wave. This way, you still have a chance of keeping them in range of the general and BSB. Either that or out of range of shooting.
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zhaos
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Posts: 22
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Post by zhaos on Feb 11, 2011 20:05:52 GMT -5
Really you get to pick the spells if you have already rolled it? I thought you just rerolled. I will have too look that up when I get home, that is an important difference.
Thanks heychadwick
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zhaos
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Posts: 22
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Post by zhaos on Feb 12, 2011 15:41:36 GMT -5
Apparently the banner of dispel only adds dispel dice equal to the rank bonus. I thought it was ranks. This makes a big difference in my master plan as well.
Back in goes the lvl 4 shaman and a staff of sneaky stealin on the gobo shammy
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Post by Chris M. on Feb 12, 2011 23:43:09 GMT -5
I've been watching this post a bit and decided to comment. I'll show you a typical build for one of my lists...
BO warboss armor of the silverd steel, +4 ward tailsman, potion of speed
Orc Great shaman L3 Dispell Scroll, Warboss Umm's best boss hat
Night Goblin shamanL1 Staff of Sneaky Stealin
Black orc Big Boss BSB Armor of Destiny
Night Goblins x40 (horde formation if possible) Full command, 2 Fanatics, Nets, Spears
Orc Boys x29 Full Command, Spears
Orc Boys x30 Full command Shields
Goblin Wolf Riders x5 Spears
Forest Goblin Spider Riders x5 Bows
Black Orcs x28 Full Command, Morks Spirit Totem.
Rock Lobba x2
Doom Diver x1
Trolls x6
Total 2498
Right off the bat in the enemy magic phase I get 4 dice even before he rolls. So I can shut down an enemies magic without a second thought. You also have given them many many targets to worry about as you have multiple units that can cause a lot of damage. I like the one unit with spears and the other with shields. I don't know why... I just like the way they look.
Anyway Here is something that most people don't tell you. My list isnt going to work for you... I play a certain way and you play a completely different way. Your list isn't bad but it has a few choices in it that had me scratching my head. I dont like the wyvern. Too many points for what it does. It's good dont get me wrong but I would rather see more tougher troops in your list.
Keep in mind that in less than a month the whole build for O&G will be changing. I've completely read through the book and WOW did they do a number on em!
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zhaos
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Posts: 22
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Post by zhaos on Feb 13, 2011 15:48:31 GMT -5
I stole the Wyvern from another list the guy was in an invitation only tournament so had won something with it Anyways here is my new list. BOWB 238pts sword of strife armor of destiny ORC BB (BSB) 147pts Light armor, Morks spirit totem Orc Great Shaman LVL4 285pts Dispel scroll +4 ward save Night goblin SHaman LVL2 135pts staff of sneaky stealin 43 X Boyz mob 316 pts x-hand weapon 7 X Trolls 280pts 36 X Night goblins 274pts full command, nets, spears, shields 3 x fanatics 33 X night goblins full command, nets, spears, shields 3 x fanatics 35 x Night goblins musician, std bearer, bows shooty things 2 X Rock lobbers with bullies 150pts 2 X doom divers 160pts 9 X squig hoppers 135pts (gonna test these guys out. Next time I will try herders )
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Post by Chris M. on Feb 14, 2011 12:09:28 GMT -5
Looks better, run your units of goblins deep for stubborn. Ignore Horde formation.
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zhaos
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Post by zhaos on Feb 14, 2011 17:42:26 GMT -5
Might try the bowmen in horde if the table will let me, then reform when something gets close.
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Post by heychadwick on Feb 15, 2011 9:34:37 GMT -5
Make your BSB a Black Orc, if only for the Heavy Armor and better WS. Also, it will help keep Animosity down. If you had a small unit of Night Goblins in the rear, you could put the Lvl 4 and the BSB there. The BO will stop the animosity so that the Shaman won't suffer from Animosity.
Squig Hoppers are terrible. They are glass cannons. They don't do well in this edition. There is enough shooting to kill them. If they make it to combat, they tend to get killed with Step Up (or killed before they get to strike). Hoppers are bad. Just try them out and you will see them die.
7 trolls? One for casualties? Eh.....you can drop him if you need the points.
You don't have a unit of 20 in case you play Watchtower. Stick in a unit of 20 NG with bows and musician to stick in the watch tower. Use them as a bunker for your BSB and Lvl 4. Put them behind the main combat blocks. They will all get the BSB re-rolls.
Do you really need 44 Orcs? Really? I would rather have a unit of 30 and a unit of 20. Use the 2nd unit as a flanker. The 30 should hold long enough to get someone in the flank. Then again, some people just love their huge units. I don't get it.
I find that 3 fanatics tends to be a bit too much. There is always one that doesn't go far enough and comes back badly. Feel free to drop them for points if you need them for other things. Drop a fanatic from each and you have enough points for a whole unit of 20 NG archers.
I've lately found chariots are awesome. I highly recommend adding any if you have the points. Even a cheap wolf chariot is nice. Snotling Pump wagons are good, too.
I think the list is pretty solid for how I use it. You always need to build a list that you can win with, though. Not everyone plays the same way. This list can be aggressive or it defensive.
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zhaos
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Post by zhaos on Feb 15, 2011 18:08:01 GMT -5
I have the huge unit of orcs because I play DElves all the time, and my units tend to not make it across the board with any number. If he concentrates his attacks on my orcs they are lucky to have 20 by the time they make it into combat. As for the 20 bowmen, I have thought about cutting the ones I have down, and dropping some fanatics and throwing down some arrer boys. Maybe have 20 arrer boys
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